Newbie with Ignition issues and burning points

[jimjiminyjimjim]

Hi I'm new to the forums but thought I'd introduce myself and ask a technical question at the same time!!

I've been getting to know my Rascal van for nearly five years. Having had absolutely no problems with the ignition apart from changing the points about once a year.

It now seems to be burning points out very quickly. I've replaced nearly everything ignition based - HT Leads, Sparkplugs, Coil, Distributor Cap, Rotor Arm, Points and condenser (twice).

I've been through about 3 sets of points in 500miles - the last lot starting to get visibly burnt after about 20 miles!

I looked into the problem last weekend some more - there seems to be a crackling noise coming from the distributor. I replaced the coil, points and condenser and set the dwell with a meter - it ran absolutely perfectly for about 30mins before starting to sound noticeably rougher. There was still a crackling/sparking noise coming from the distributor.

I'm at a loss as to what else it could be. The only thing I also think is worth noting is there is a wire leading to the points (not the one that comes attached to the points) that seems the insulation has been stripped. I couldn't seem to replace it as the screws that connect it to the baseplate were one way screws - so I wrapped some insulation tape around it instead. It didn't make any difference.

Can't think what else could be causing the points to burn? Could it be a worn distributor? Or an earthing issue - which I don't know how to test.

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated - I'm stumped!!!

[Dell Boy]

Hello & welcome to the site. It might be that your condenser is not earthing. Take it off & thoroughly clean the distributor body under it. Cut a slot in the condenser so you can slide it behind the fixing screw & then tighten the screw. This makes it easier to change. Derek.

[>>CHOP<<]

Hi and welcome...derek has probebly identified the fault ...but just check the stator plate that the points fix to..sometimes can come loose..good luck keep us informed ...CHOP

[TITCH]

Second hand dizzy anyone??

[jimjiminyjimjim]

Thanks for all the replys!! I can't believe I haven't found this forum before - the only source of rascal specific knowledge I've found so far is bedfordrascal.com

Well I tried your suggestions - I've cleaned the dizzy housing underneath the condenser and cut a slot to help fit it back in place (great suggestion Dell Boy). The noise still happening - but I don't know if thats related to the points problem or not.

I took it to a garage today and they said the only thing it could be would be the condenser - but I'm not so sure - particularly after all the suggestions I've had so far! They also said that the distributor cap didn't seem like quite the right one. But I got it from bedfordrascal.com - who I definitely trust for parts being correct.

Is there anyway to test if the condenser is working correctly while the van is running with a multimeter or something? Can I do any other electrical checks to diagnose the problem further - could I have connected something up incorrectly by a mistake - as a possibility?  Or do I just put a new dizzy in as that is the last part in the ignition to change?

Also - if I'm changing the distributor - is it worth thinking about electronic ignition? Will this solve the problems - or could electronic ignition burn out if the source of the issue isn't solved.

If it is worth thinking about electronic ignition where do I get one from?

[tinworm]

Hi I assume you are putting an ear quite close to your distributor to hear anything ?
you shouldnt hear anything otherwise .Anyway check you have the correct coil and condensor as these are the only parts electrically connected to the points - If the points show bad burning and pitting this can be caused by the condenser which serves to extinguish the arc as the points open (you get an arc as the coil is a high inductive load )
or the coil being the wrong type with a low resistance primary winding causing increased electical load and therefore more wear to the points contact faces - avoid coils from other cars and so called high performance coils unless specifically for this vehicle. A heavy load on the points can cause the plastic heel to melt in extreme circumstances,and close the gap up entirely. Substitute parts which are correct for the rascal and you should have no problems.
Check also wiring to the ballast resistor ensure no short outs / damaged insulation.

regards Tinworm

[j j 007]

go for electronic best thing i ever bought

[>>CHOP<<]

make sure you have a matching pair....dizzy cap and rotor..should be same colour   usually black  or orange/brown  ...just a thought.....have you checked the stator and the advance / retard mechanisms make sure they arnt loose..make sure the little vent tube is clear ...keep us informed...CHOP

[jimjiminyjimjim]

Thanks for all the help guys.

Okay - this is where I'm at - I took it to the garage and they said that the points were just set incorrectly. The points gap was too big. And that the points hadn't burnt out. But the van was misfiring and running rough.

Before I took it to the garage I looked at the points and they did have a visible 'discolouring' on one side - is this normal after only 10 miles.

So now I have paid a garage to refit the points and it was running ok (not perfect in my opinion) - it was running fine in terms of acceleration but I still think it sounds a bit 'gravelly'. But I'm sure by the time I got it home it was sounding rough again.

This time round I had replaced the points myself but the previous time the points were set by a garage and I got the same problem. I set the dwell with  a meter and double checked the gap with a feeler guage. The van was running sweet as for the first 10miles.

I'm really at a loss.

I've got a matching pair of cap and rotor arm. I'm not sure how to check the stator? I've checked the vacuum advance - I wouldn't say its loose - in fact it needed a bit of loosening with wd40 to get it moving better. (that was before the last set of points)

On the noise - you can hear it from the drivers seat - even with the back engine cover on. Its an audible rattle or clicking. I'm pretty sure its the distributor. I don't really know if there's anything I can do to isolate the rattle.

If I was to swap for an electronic ignition (if I need a new dizzy anyway - its seems I might as well). Where can I get one from? Are there third party ones that will work or is it a case of finding a rascal specific one? What are we looking at cost wise?

Thanks for all the help.

[>>CHOP<<]

could the ticking be a valve rocker... maybe valve clearances want checking...its an easy job...have you any way of borrowing a distributor just to eliminate your possible problem....shame you live so far away i have my old dizzy you could try...someone near you surly..??

electronic distributors are quite difficult to find ...but not impossible...I'm sure there will be a few sat in some breakers yard somewhere....the people who have them wither want to keep them or ask around £150 and to be honest apart from the messing with the points the electric ones don't improve performance much...in my experience anyway.....join the "keep tinkering till its OK"  club ...process of elimination I'm afraid...good luck...CHOP

[TITCH]

I think Chop has got it, if the dizzy was 'rattling' you expect to find something loose inside it and I think it would have a 'high pitch' rattle.

Even though the valves etc have oil all over the place when the engine is running, it's surprising how much of a 'metal' to metal' ticking sound they would make if stuck or out of adjustment. It's another explanation for loss of power too??

HAS to be worth checking, you may be surprised at the power difference, in fact, for many of us, it could be a job worth checking really, especially with some having highish mileages.

Titch

[jimjiminyjimjim]

Okay - thanks for the advice - I'll check the valve clearances this weekend - see what I can find. Hopefully its a simple enough task. I've got a Haynes so that should see me through!!

I'm not sure though that this will solve all my problems. Like I say every time I get the points adjusted the van runs sweet as a nut for a short amount of time - until it starts running rough again. Its really does feel like a brand new van for a short amount of time with new points. Its not so much a loss of power as more of a, juddering, stuttering, that all starts with rough sounding engine. The main issue definitely seems related to the ignition and the points. And I'm sure the sound is coming from the distributor - although I admit I'm not 100% sure. Its sounds like a crackling/sparking noise - but the mechanic at the garage seemed to think it was mechanical.

Its a tough one because I know when my van is running well and when I take it to a garage and they say its now running fine because they expect an old vehicle to sound rougher than it is.

Very frustrating - I'll keep tinkering I guess!!

[Dell Boy]

I think you have a blocked carb. Derek.

[jimjiminyjimjim]

Hi guys, sorry I haven't posted a response. After much pulling of hair etc, JJ got in contact with me (Thanks JJ) and told me to get hold of Joey who might sort me out with an electronic ignition.

I've been over there today with Joey and he and his mechanic have been great and fitted an electronic dizzy into the van. It worked a charm. Van running very smoothly indeed.

Only problem was that the coil we used (an Escort Mk4) burnt out on the way home. Joey recommended a coil change as the standard rascal contact ignition version is too weak. But I think I might have bought a dud.

Well as the new coil burnt out, we fit the rascal one back on and it worked okay (it was only two weeks old though). Joey was surprised it ran but it seemed fine.

Just got back home successfully!! Although the van does seem to have a little less power than with the Escort coil.

What coil would people recommend I use? Can you get rascal electronic coils or are they gold dust? What are you guys using with your electronic ignitions?

Thanks for all your help so far - and thanks to Joey and his mechanic Johnny - if any of you want an electronic ignition - give him a shout - great guys - genuinely willing to help and did a great job.

[j j 007]

got mine of ebay mate lucky £6 will dig it out and give you info tomorrow got it as a spare